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I can see this ultimately hurting people. Personally I'm of the opinion that the FICO and other credit scoring algorithms should be public domain.
 

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Yeah... No. Having money in the bank doesn't make you any more trust worthy. If anything it makes you less.


Lately there's been some silly changes in algorithms... Before utilization used to be month to month but now its recorded for several years.

Which is a bit silly. It's like saying hey here is a bunch of credit but don't spend it else you can't get more. To me someone with a $5,000 limit and spending $3,000/month on it, but paying it off, should have better 'utilization' than someone who has $100,000 limit combined but only spends $100 on it. But no, Mr. $100 can apply for an amex and get a $28,000 limit card meanwhile mr $3,000 would probably get denied because I don't know, he's a bad person.

It incentivizes card hunting and applying to literally every card on the planet just so when it comes time to buy a house you have the golden 800+ credit score but in reality you work at McDonalds and can't pay off your car to save your life.
 

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I can see this ultimately hurting people. Personally I'm of the opinion that the FICO and other credit scoring algorithms should be public domain.
There are different FICO score models but I'm not sure the difference this would make. If everybody's score rises the criteria for Credit will just be adjusted. Cap 1 provides a free FICO score and I'm 723. Experian has me at 643. I watched my credit fall 21 points on all my reports last year to learn it was just a scoring mistake and they all were restored. I really don't like to see my Credit rating go down when used during a given month before a chance to pay it back, that's kooky!
 

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There are different FICO score models but I'm not sure the difference this would make. If everybody's score rises the criteria for Credit will just be adjusted. Cap 1 provides a free FICO score and I'm 723. Experian has me at 643. I watched my credit fall 21 points on all my reports last year to learn it was just a scoring mistake and they all were restored. I really don't like to see my Credit rating go down when used during a given month before a chance to pay it back, that's kooky!
Also plain ridiculous how someone with a stable job gets that low of a score.

I got 2 cards my first year of college at 18. A Discover It and some Chase thing. Total was like $2,000 limit.

Second year I got a barclays and a td ameritrade and a best buy card. Total limit was then around $14,000 at this point.

Third year I didnt do a whole lot but I know both discover and chase knocked the limit up automatically. Was then probably $22,000 in total limit.


This year I got an AmEx and yeah rest is history. My credit score has hit 800 before. Currently its around 770. And I'm 21 years old with no I guess 'stable' job.

System is completely screwed.
 

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Personally. I don't want my finances tied to my score.

We've already had problems with Equifax. We've already had cards get hacked. Who's going to save our checking and money markets???
 

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Your card didn't get hacked. You just used them wrong. The people that get their identity stolen did it to themselves from being gullible.
 

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Personally I'm of the opinion that the FICO and other credit scoring algorithms should be public domain.
Yes .... an no. Yes, there should be some accountability for the score since it can really hurt people. But a the same time, if it becomes public knowledge, then people will trying to game the system. Think SEO (Search Engine Optimization) of the financial sector.
 

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Yeah... No. Having money in the bank doesn't make you any more trust worthy. If anything it makes you less.


Lately there's been some silly changes in algorithms... Before utilization used to be month to month but now its recorded for several years.

Which is a bit silly. It's like saying hey here is a bunch of credit but don't spend it else you can't get more. To me someone with a $5,000 limit and spending $3,000/month on it, but paying it off, should have better 'utilization' than someone who has $100,000 limit combined but only spends $100 on it. But no, Mr. $100 can apply for an amex and get a $28,000 limit card meanwhile mr $3,000 would probably get denied because I don't know, he's a bad person.

It incentivizes card hunting and applying to literally every card on the planet just so when it comes time to buy a house you have the golden 800+ credit score but in reality you work at McDonalds and can't pay off your car to save your life.
Less trust worthy...How?


You forget that every time you apply for a new card, your score goes down whether or not you receive the card.
 

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I've had cards I've never used 'stolen'. It's sadly not that hard to guess card numbers.
I call bull. Not only would they have to guess the card number but they would have to also correctly guess the date and the CVV number on the back of the card to use your card without swiping it. They would have more of a chance to win the lottery while being hit with lightning.
 

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Yeah... No. Having money in the bank doesn't make you any more trust worthy. If anything it makes you less.


Lately there's been some silly changes in algorithms... Before utilization used to be month to month but now its recorded for several years.

Which is a bit silly. It's like saying hey here is a bunch of credit but don't spend it else you can't get more. To me someone with a $5,000 limit and spending $3,000/month on it, but paying it off, should have better 'utilization' than someone who has $100,000 limit combined but only spends $100 on it.
A few years ago, I was floating my house on credit cards. Then as the free money was drying up, I decided to get a real mortgage. My CC FICO was in the 740s, but the model my mortgage lender used was in the 730s and I needed a 740 for the best rate. So I bought over $20k of Visa gift cards on my AMEX, bought money orders at Walmart with the gift cards, paid down a couple of credit cards that were closing their statement periods that week, had the lender rerun my credit score, and paid off the AMEX bill with the check from the mortgage.

Then AMEX, pissed at me for running up (and paying off) a $22k balance on a $30k card, canceled all my accounts.
Now my utilization is high because over $90k in unused (and apparently unusable, but I didn't know that until I used them) credit lines are gone for good, and my average age of open accounts took a hit too.

EDIT: Full disclosure, AMEX didn't exactly fire me for paying off a balance. They put me in Financial Review for running up a balance, and fired me for not giving an outside agency (one of the Credit Reporting Bureaus, for crying out loud) my tax returns in the Financial Review process. But they did fire me after I paid off the balance.

I was shocked when they sent me a 4506-T and instead of having AMEX's name on it, by signing it I was authorizing the IRS to send my transcripts to either Equifax or Experian, I forget which. Yeah, I'll get right on that, handing my tax returns to a company that specializes in selling peoples' personal financial information for profit.

I told the woman handling my Financial Review exactly why I'd never consider signing the 4506-T. Since then, I've learned that AMEX started sending out blank 4506-Ts (instructions from the IRS, right on the form, say not to sign it if any line is blank) so they can put Equifax's name on it after you sign it.
 

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I call bull. Not only would they have to guess the card number but they would have to also correctly guess the date and the CVV number on the back of the card to use your card without swiping it. They would have more of a chance to win the lottery while being hit with lightning.
The first few 4-6 numbers represent the issuer. So those are immediately free. The entire number is represented by a special chemsum that simply makes a lot of card numbers impossible. For example Visa this leads to only a few billion possible numbers of which a solid percentage will be valid.

To make matters worse card numbers are usually pooled so it's not uncommon for a card that has been stolen to be activated again several years later.

A decent setup would have thousands of sites to test with. You can get around the CVN fairly easily but making physical purchases to weird places is a high risk to flag. But that means you only need to guess the expiration date which only has a couple hundred possibilities.
 

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Less trust worthy...How?


You forget that every time you apply for a new card, your score goes down whether or not you receive the card.
Depends on circumstances. Opening a new card if you have greater than 50 percent utilisation is always a good idea. You may get a slight drop just because of hard pulls but those are nothing to worry about. The decrease in utilisation will end up helping you more than anything. And long term you have another account to pull up your average age.
 

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The first few 4-6 numbers represent the issuer. So those are immediately free. The entire number is represented by a special chemsum that simply makes a lot of card numbers impossible. For example Visa this leads to only a few billion possible numbers of which a solid percentage will be valid.

To make matters worse card numbers are usually pooled so it's not uncommon for a card that has been stolen to be activated again several years later.

A decent setup would have thousands of sites to test with. You can get around the CVN fairly easily but making physical purchases to weird places is a high risk to flag. But that means you only need to guess the expiration date which only has a couple hundred possibilities.
um no
 

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Depends on circumstances. Opening a new card if you have greater than 50 percent utilisation is always a good idea. You may get a slight drop just because of hard pulls but those are nothing to worry about. The decrease in utilisation will end up helping you more than anything. And long term you have another account to pull up your average age.
Utilization is per card, not aggregate
 
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