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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Driving down a two lane road last night, used the brights to look for deer, but missed those fog lamps to fill in the gap and give a lot more side light.

I don't know why, but read someplace its the law. And with any law must be a logical reason. But having problems trying to figure out what this logical reason is.

If a courteous driver will always dim your lights if an oncoming vehicle is present. Even if you are not will dim your lights or risk blinding the guy and having a head on collision. So what if your fog lamps are on with your brights if there is not another soul around? But when you do dim your lights, the fogs will come back on again!

Trying to think of a logical reason for this, can anyone help me?
 

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I don't know why, but read someplace its the law. And with any law must be a logical reason. But having problems trying to figure out what this logical reason is.
I don't know what the logic was for the law, but I recall that it was that way when Pointiac brought out the 6000STE. That one had six headlights one pair being a "driving light" and you couldn't use them with the high beams. It's also agin the law to drive at night with just auxiliary lights (i.e. driving lights). Gotta have the headlights on, even if they aren't as good as others.
 

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The NHTSA has set a maximum lumens that a car's head lights can produce. For many cars the combination of fogs and high beams exceed this limit. Toyota had a recall earlier this year to replace the bulbs in one of their SUVs with dimmer bulbs because this limit could be exceeded.

Frankly, I'd love to rig my fogs to always come on whenever my parking/marker lights come on.
 

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I had a set of Cibie flame throwers mounted below the bumper and alongside the license plate on a Mazda 323. They were only 55W each, but the focus was laserlike and they were far better than the stock headlights. Because of the focus, they looked really bright from head on, but they were great for night driving, which I was doing a lot of back then. They only lit up the lane I was in for far further than the headlights, but you still had to have the stock headlights on as I was informed of by the Smokey that pulled me over once for driving with only the Cibies on. No tickie, just a warning when I showed him the headlights worked.
 

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There's a way to do it with an Excursion/Super Duty as well.

From what I understand, it's not so much lumens as it is total lights. You cannot have more than four white 'headlights' on the front of your car on at any time. This is why safari lights aren't legal to drive with turned on while driving. Since the low beam and high beam are essentially two different filaments, that counts as two lights. When you turn your high beams on, the lows do not go off, so you have four lights on. The fogs go off so that you don't violate that rule by having six lights on. But it very well could be based on lumens as well.
 

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There's a way to do it with an Excursion/Super Duty as well.

From what I understand, it's not so much lumens as it is total lights. You cannot have more than four white 'headlights' on the front of your car on at any time. This is why safari lights aren't legal to drive with turned on while driving. Since the low beam and high beam are essentially two different filaments, that counts as two lights. When you turn your high beams on, the lows do not go off, so you have four lights on. The fogs go off so that you don't violate that rule by having six lights on. But it very well could be based on lumens as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a limit on the number of head lights. The only reason I know about the Toyota recall to dim the headlights is because I receive the NHTSA recall notifications for Toyota.
 

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I find that when driving with the fogs on, it impairs your night vision at a distance.

Having so much light on the road immediately in front of the car doesn't allow your eyes to catch everything outside of the fogs throw. You can see more with less light, yet a longer throw.

I drive down completely rural roads with zero light every day and was actually making note of this about a week ago.
 

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I find that when driving with the fogs on, it impairs your night vision at a distance.

Having so much light on the road immediately in front of the car doesn't allow your eyes to catch everything outside of the fogs throw. You can see more with less light, yet a longer throw.

I drive down completely rural roads with zero light every day and was actually making note of this about a week ago.
This is my #1 reason for recommending against HID retrofit kits or installing any bulb that compromises the calibration of the factory headlight housing. Just because it's brighter, doesn't mean it improves your visibility.

Sent from mobile.
 

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This is the first time I have heard of this as in Australia the fogs work fine on low or high and the only time high and low are on at the same time is when you use the high beam flasher to get someones attention. Driving lights are allowed but they must go off when low beam is on and have a switch that can turn them off separately to allow high beam use without them. The gap between where the lights shine and the front of the car and where the beams start doesn't affect me seeing distance at night but this could be because we have a different type of globe to US. When and if I blow a globe I will install +190 globes as I have on previous cars as these are great and use the same power as standard but are nearly double the brightness but don't alter the aim of the beams. I have them in my wife's Hyundai and she has stopped complaining about difficulty seeing at night in dark streets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
According to my ammeter showing 16 amps with the dims on and 16.5 amps with the brights on, that kills the theory that all four filaments are on at the same time on brights. Just measured at the negative battery, sounds about right, 6 amps per filament for 12 amps, and the other 4 amps for the other bulbs. 6 tail lamps bulbs are on at roughly 0.6 amps per bulb and 4 194 bulbs are on at roughly 0.1 amps a piece to total to about 4 amps.

According to my eyeballs, the four rectangular, 1A1's and 2A1's, headlamps in my P-30 are the best, here both the dims from the two outer and the brights from the two inner are all on at the same time. Ironically these are also the cheapest bulbs to replace and even come with brand new lenses at no extra charge. Ha, price the cost of the lenses on the Cruze.

Had this same discussion with another fellow thinking in these super tiny bulbs like the Cruze uses, igniting both filaments at the same time with double the power would not only burn the the bulb, but the plastic around it. Don't guess, measure.

Wife asked me if I could change this, sure, an easy job on our Supra, just have to bypass a kill relay when the brights on. But with the Cruze, would need access to the source code to do the same thing. Fat chance of getting that. Just cut your speed in half and use the dims.

Driving in Wisconsin at night at 11:00 PM, don't see a soul, but at 2:00AM, besides the deer, really have to watch out for the drunks when the bars close.
 

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This law does not apply to Subarus ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Suppose I could just temporally hot wire that single fog lamp lead to learn if it makes a difference. Then judge if its worth looking more into this.

Just had my home inspected by our water utility, for back flow, but since it was code everywhere else I lived, already installed a check valve on the outlet of my water meter and an expansion tank for the hot water heater.

But because my laundry tub facet has hose threads on it, made me add a check valve to it. Their scenario is, if my tub is full of sewage water, has a short hose connected to it in that sewage water, and the faucet valve is left on. That sewage water would be drawn up an eight foot high pipe, clear across my basement, and into the city water supply.

First question was, what about my whole house check valve, guy responded the state EPA never heard about these. Next question, if why would anyone leave the faucet on, tubs like this don't have an overflow, if left on, my basement would be flooded, not to mention my water bill. No response to that. Then would there be a sufficient vacuum to pull this water up an eight foot high pipe? Any amount of even the slightest amount of of air leakage will kill that vacuum in the entire home would kill that vacuum. Don't know, but its the law.

Sounds just like this fog lamp law. Couldn't help but make the comment, been dealing with the EPA most of my life in automotive, not a single agent I met would last a second in a private industry that has to make a profit, but they have the power of the law.

Not fun living in a country ran by idiots.
 

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Might as well only run low beams all the time.

The fogs make a really bright spot in front of the car. This washes out your distance vision. So, you can see the stuff you're about to hit just fine, while missing the deer your could have avoided.
 
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