Cruze vs Volt?

Taxman · Dec 21, 2018

MP81 said:
It does online. It's a little less comprehensive than what I'd like - but it tracks how many kW you used.

How much came out of the battery, or how much came from the power company?

If you meter the outlet the EVSE is plugged into, you'll know how much the car is adding to your power bill.

MP81 · Dec 21, 2018

Neither - kW usage while driving the vehicle.

It doesn't track how much you charge, which is a little odd. For mine, I know my electric bill went up about $30 a month, or so - slightly more in winter, since it uses more of the battery (preconditioning, increased rolling resistance, winter tires, seat and steering wheel heater, defroster, etc).

But I save roughly $150-200 in gas, so it's a huge improvement. Plus not having to take the time to fill up on a more-than-weekly basis.

PanJet · Dec 21, 2018

DmaxMaverick said:
soutthpaw said:

Thanks for your reply, you mentioned the CA battery warranty, I'm looking at a 2016 that was originally sold by a California dealers and is one owner that was CA registered.
Does this mean the longer battery warranty will carry over to me even though I don't live in CA

Click to expand...

If the "CA Emissions" code is on the RPO list, then it goes with the car, no matter where the car goes.

Regardless of whether or not the car qualifies for CA Emissions (specifically the TZEV requirements required for the extended warranty on battery, electric drivetrain and emissions components), the car must be registered in a state that follows the California TZEV rules in order to get the extended warranty. This is explicitly stated in the GM Warranty Manual. Currently, those states are CA, OR, CT, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, RI, and VT. If your car is not registered in one of those states, it does not get the extended warranty.

It is also important to note that not all Volts qualify, even in CA. For Gen 2 Volts, if your VIN has a C or D as the fifth character, then it qualifies. However, if it has an A or a B, it does not qualify even if it is sold and/or registered in CA or one of the other states above. There have been incidences of dealers in one of the states listed above getting cars originally delivered to non-participating states (dealer trades, etc.) and consumers unknowingly purchasing these cars and not qualifying for state tax rebates, extended warranty, or HOV lane access in California.

PanJet · Dec 21, 2018

DmaxMaverick said:
You're redefining what is hybrid and what is EV vs. HEV.

The Volt is capable of propulsion by electric motors, an ICE engine, or a combination of both, which is the very definition of a hybrid. The fact that it can theoretically drive indefinitely without ICE power is irrelevant. Theoretically all hybrids, plug in or not, are capable of propulsion of some level on electric power alone. The Volt just has far more electric capability and a large enough battery to support it than nearly all other hybrids. The Volt has two power sources which can independently propel the car and is therefore a hybrid.

soutthpaw · Dec 21, 2018

PanJet said:
Regardless of whether or not the car qualifies for CA Emissions (specifically the TZEV requirements required for the extended warranty on battery, electric drivetrain and emissions components), the car must be registered in a state that follows the California TZEV rules in order to get the extended warranty. This is explicitly stated in the GM Warranty Manual. Currently, those states are CA, OR, CT, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, RI, and VT. If your car is not registered in one of those states, it does not get the extended warranty.

It is also important to note that not all Volts qualify, even in CA. For Gen 2 Volts, if your VIN has a C or D as the fifth character, then it qualifies. However, if it has an A or a B, it does not qualify even if it is sold and/or registered in CA or one of the other states above. There have been incidences of dealers in one of the states listed above getting cars originally delivered to non-participating states (dealer trades, etc.) and consumers unknowingly purchasing these cars and not qualifying for state tax rebates, extended warranty, or HOV lane access in California.

Thanks, this vehicle has a C as it's 5th digit in the VIN. It will not be registered in CA, but when it gets closer to warranty expiration I could register it at my dad's house in CA. Which hopefully would add back the 2 years, 50k extra warranty.

DmaxMaverick · Dec 21, 2018

PanJet said:
The Volt is capable of propulsion by electric motors, an ICE engine, or a combination of both, which is the very definition of a hybrid. The fact that it can theoretically drive indefinitely without ICE power is irrelevant. Theoretically all hybrids, plug in or not, are capable of propulsion of some level on electric power alone. The Volt just has far more electric capability and a large enough battery to support it than nearly all other hybrids. The Volt has two power sources which can independently propel the car and is therefore a hybrid.

The ability to operate as a "hybrid" is incidental. It's also a feature that can be used at will. It isn't compulsory. It does so only because of the existing advantage, and cleverly designed into the system to maximize efficiency during very specific conditions. It isn't a primary design. By your definition, many "hybrids" are not hybrids. As I said, no other "hybrid" can operate w/o the ICE under normal operation. Perhaps the Prius plug-in, but you'd have to limit your trips to the battery capacity (abysmal), and never exceed 30% acceleration. Hardly normal. Every one of them require ICE engagement for normal acceleration, like freeway merging, passing, or operating above a specific speed. The Volt does not, in fact, have two power sources that can independently propel the car. Absent the SOC, it doesn't move. At all. At any speed under any condition. Operating "like" a hybrid at specific times does not make it a hybrid. It's an added ability. Also, the Volt is a certified ZEV, or more specifically, a capable ZEV for this discussion. No Prius or other "hybrid" can claim that.

MP81 · Dec 21, 2018

Ultimate, the Gen-2 Volt is a Series/Parallel hybrid, as it can do both. "Normal" hybrids are just Parallel. The Gen-1 Volt was, I believe, an entirely-Series Hybrid, as the engine could never propel the vehicle.

The Gen-2 Volt is almost always a Series Hybrid, but in instances does operate as a Parallel Hybrid, if it makes more sense - mainly on the freeway. In the city, it's going to be Series, with the engine acting solely as a generator.

PanJet · Dec 21, 2018

DmaxMaverick said:
Operating "like" a hybrid at specific times does not make it a hybrid. It's an added ability. Also, the Volt is a certified ZEV, or more specifically, a capable ZEV for this discussion. No Prius or other "hybrid" can claim that.

Once again, false. The Volt is in fact not a ZEV but rather a TZEV - a designnation given to PHEVs. The Volt shares this designation with nearly every PHEV on the road including the Prius Prime, the Hyundai Ioniq, etc etc.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/eligible-carpool-sticker-list

It is not “my” definition of hybrid. Nearly every classification of the Volt aside from yours considers the Volt a hybrid - a PHEV, a plug-in hybrid. It has two sources of power. It is a hybrid. In that list from CARB in the link above, please take special note of the BMW I3. The electric version which has no ICE is classified as a ZEV Electric car. Get the optional range extender (ICE), and it automatically becomes a TZEV plug-in hybrid even though its electric capabilities are unchanged from the version with no ICE onboard. The I3 with a range extender is even more than the Volt what you are describing - an electric car with the added capability of a range extender. Throw in an ICE, even for “incidental” usage, and it becomes a hybrid by nearly every classification.

A Tesla is not a hybrid. A Bolt is not a hybrid. An I-Pace is not a hybrid. A Cruze is not a hybrid. A Volt is a hybrid.

Ma v e n · Dec 21, 2018

The Malibu hybrid, also does not have two sources of power which can allow the vehicle to operate and move. Just like a Volt, if the HV battery has insufficient SOC the vehicle is dead in the water. It can't be jump started, it can't be push started. If the HV system is inoperative the vehicle won't move and it can't start the ICE.

The 5ET50 is more than a "form factor" or just the physical shape of the box. It denotes it's physical size and shape, it's drive layout and function and torque capacity. The two transmissions have the same final drive ratio, the same planetary gearing, the same control systems and power electronics(although with differing calibrations due to the difference in battery capacity and vehicle size/weight) the only truly notable difference is that the Malibu has a more powerful motor A and a less powerful motor B inside the drive unit. So while the Malibu has slightly less horsepower(176 vs 181) it actually has more torque (296 vs 293)

These differences are attributed to the variances in ICE and HV battery capacity. If the Malibu had the battery capacity I can only imagine it would have been given the "missing" powertrains operation mode as compared for the Volt as well, which is single motor EV operation. Your mention of user selectable modes is immaterial to the fact that as I mentioned these vehicles share nearly identical tech, and also operate in nearly identical ways.

The Malibu is what the Volt would be if you couldn't plug it in. I think it's an excellent and appropriate use of the tech and functionality, and what's they should've done with it, electricity an existing vehicle. Like I said, expect to see it proliferate throughout the range as GM continues on its goal to offer electrified versions of every model they sell. And FYI, the CT6 PiHEV is also same tech just RWD. And it's what you'll see in trucks, SUV, and Camaros as well as the ATS and CATS replacements

soutthpaw · Dec 22, 2018

Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.

boraz · Dec 22, 2018

soutthpaw said:
Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.

net or gross $2000?

MP81 · Dec 22, 2018

soutthpaw said:
Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.

Glad to hear it!

Even if you get on the freeway, as long as you behave yourself, high 40s is easily attainable.

My buddy has a '17 and has determined that if you stay at 70 mph or below, you should be sitting around 47 MPG (assuming no AC or Heat), but at 71 mph, the "level" the ICE runs at (it's not linear) bumps up, and it'll drop down to about 45 MPG - but that "level" stays about consistent until 85 mph - so you can get roughly 45 MPG even at 80-85 mph.

soutthpaw · Dec 22, 2018

boraz said:
net or gross $2000?

Well I just estimated my Forester is rated at 28mpg highway. So 25000 miles/28 X $3 a gallon fuel estimate cost. That comes out to about $2700 a year for fuel purchase cost. on 80% electric miles is $2160 saved. Nevada has free charging publicly till 2021 I believe. I can charge at home free, for reasons. I can also fully charge at work in 110vac during my shift or use charger across street at theater.

I had a great deal setup on a new 18 orange diesel hatch. ($20190 plus tax doc and license) The color I wanted, but I'm old enough,'for good or bad, to put practically ahead of what I really liked most for aesthetic reasons. The fuel savings is basically half my monthly payment.

soutthpaw · Dec 22, 2018

MP81 said:
Glad to hear it!

Even if you get on the freeway, as long as you behave yourself, high 40s is easily attainable.

My buddy has a '17 and has determined that if you stay at 70 mph or below, you should be sitting around 47 MPG (assuming no AC or Heat), but at 71 mph, the "level" the ICE runs at (it's not linear) bumps up, and it'll drop down to about 45 MPG - but that "level" stays about consistent until 85 mph - so you can get roughly 45 MPG even at 80-85 mph.

Good to know, my drive is all 4 lane, ½ highway @60mph ½freeway@70mph. Mostly flat with mild grades.

MP81 · Dec 22, 2018

How many miles each way (I estimated that based on 25k miles a year, that's about 50 miles each way?)? I noticed you said you can charge at work, so that may be a major help in reducing gas usage.

Barry Allen · Dec 23, 2018

soutthpaw said:
I can charge at home free, for reasons.

I need more details on this.

PanJet · Dec 26, 2018

soutthpaw said:
Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.

Congrats! Good to hear. I think you’ll be very pleased with the Volt.

Christoph · Dec 12, 2021

DmaxMaverick said:
The ability to operate as a "hybrid" is incidental. It's also a feature that can be used at will. It isn't compulsory. It does so only because of the existing advantage, and cleverly designed into the system to maximize efficiency during very specific conditions. It isn't a primary design. By your definition, many "hybrids" are not hybrids. As I said, no other "hybrid" can operate w/o the ICE under normal operation. Perhaps the Prius plug-in, but you'd have to limit your trips to the battery capacity (abysmal), and never exceed 30% acceleration. Hardly normal. Every one of them require ICE engagement for normal acceleration, like freeway merging, passing, or operating above a specific speed. The Volt does not, in fact, have two power sources that can independently propel the car. Absent the SOC, it doesn't move. At all. At any speed under any condition. Operating "like" a hybrid at specific times does not make it a hybrid. It's an added ability. Also, the Volt is a certified ZEV, or more specifically, a capable ZEV for this discussion. No Prius or other "hybrid" can claim that.

Boom! Nailed it. The Volt truly is unique. To call it a hybrid completely glosses over the nuances of what makes it unique. The most similar vehicle is likely the Prius Prime plug in hybrid. But as you said, its electric-only range is abysmal. More importantly, the electric motor somehow manages to be so anemic that attempting to accelerate at a rate that wouldn't have following motorists blaring their horn at you forces the gas engine to kick in to help move things along. Even at that though, it's an astonishingly slow accelerating vehicle. Like so slow that you'd think that Toyota's primary objective was to make an electrified vehicle so boring and unappealing that they can argue that consumers don't want them, so as to have an excuse to continue making gas burners and stall the EV revolution.

Now, if we compare the Volt to a pure range extended EV, like the i3 REx I cross shopped it against, it has some major advantages. The Volt can operate as a proper hybrid instead of simply running a glorified lawnmower engine to recharge the battery as you simultaneously drain said battery whilst powering the wheels like the i3 REx. Instead the Volt can run in whatever configuration is most efficient. It can even send power directly from the gas engine to the wheels when driving conditions dictate that that is more efficient. This means it's technically a plug in hybrid not a range extended EV like the i3 REx, which sounds like a bad thing but is actually a good thing. Burning gas to turn a generator to charge a battery to discharge a battery to power an electric motor to drive the wheels is a lot of energy conversations, meaning lots of energy lost in the process. Those is why, when burning gas, a Volt is vastly more efficient than an i3 REx.

I like to describe the Volt as a hybrid between an EV and a hybrid. It's an EV for daily driving but can transform into a hybrid on roadtrips. There really is no other vehicle on the road that genuinely offers this capability in real world driving. I only wish it could charge faster to swing that pendulum a little more towards EV than hybrid on road trips. That's my one complaint with the vehicle. Most probably wouldn't care, but I do.

Blasirl · Dec 12, 2021

Christoph said:
Boom! Nailed it. The Volt truly is unique. To call it a hybrid completely glosses over the nuances of what makes it unique. The most similar vehicle is likely the Prius Prime plug in hybrid. But as you said, its electric-only range is abysmal. More importantly, the electric motor somehow manages to be so anemic that attempting to accelerate at a rate that wouldn't have following motorists blaring their horn at you forces the gas engine to kick in to help move things along. Even at that though, it's an astonishingly slow accelerating vehicle. Like so slow that you'd think that Toyota's primary objective was to make an electrified vehicle so boring and unappealing that they can argue that consumers don't want them, so as to have an excuse to continue making gas burners and stall the EV revolution.

Now, if we compare the Volt to a pure range extended EV, like the i3 REx I cross shopped it against, it has some major advantages. The Volt can operate as a proper hybrid instead of simply running a glorified lawnmower engine to recharge the battery as you simultaneously drain said battery whilst powering the wheels like the i3 REx. Instead the Volt can run in whatever configuration is most efficient. It can even send power directly from the gas engine to the wheels when driving conditions dictate that that is more efficient. This means it's technically a plug in hybrid not a range extended EV like the i3 REx, which sounds like a bad thing but is actually a good thing. Burning gas to turn a generator to charge a battery to discharge a battery to power an electric motor to drive the wheels is a lot of energy conversations, meaning lots of energy lost in the process. Those is why, when burning gas, a Volt is vastly more efficient than an i3 REx.

I like to describe the Volt as a hybrid between an EV and a hybrid. It's an EV for daily driving but can transform into a hybrid on roadtrips. There really is no other vehicle on the road that genuinely offers this capability in real world driving. I only wish it could charge faster to swing that pendulum a little more towards EV than hybrid on road trips. That's my one complaint with the vehicle. Most probably wouldn't care, but I do.

Welcome Aboard!

Don't forget to introduce yourself and your Volt here.

tombukt2 · Apr 11, 2025

soutthpaw said:
Well I found a Cruze exactly the specs I want, 600 miles away. But I happened to test drive a 2016 Volt 25k miles, at the dealer today. I was impressed by the performance and comfort and as I drive 60 miles one way for work and have a charging station right by my workplace, I could charge while at work and at home which would mean almost the entire round trip should be on electric only (range 53 miles) before engine kicks in. It has 75k/5 years left on battery warranty. My concern is will these Volts be basically worthless once the warranty is up? I see the diesel as always holding its value. Such as The VW TDI series.
Anyone know how reliable the Volt is? What is the replacement cost of the battery pack?

My thinking is that I would save about $1500 on fuel costs compared to a diesel. I can charge as gone basically free and Nevada is free charging till 2021 due to assume state DOT program...

The new Cruze and the used volt would be about the same price.
Thanks.

I own two first generation volts 13 and a 12 actually it's 11 it was one of the first ones out with my brother's car in Baltimore Maryland area from oursman Chevrolet It only has 53k mi on it today It's an extremely reliable car it doesn't have any support really voltec folks are very twitchy and not very knowledgeable so you're kind of on your own with this one batteries can become problematic this kind of car seems to do better sitting on the charger whenever it's not being driven I use the 110 volt charger not trying to power it up for the 30 miles and 12 minutes is no rush for me anyway so mine's usually sitting when I'm out of it plugged into a regular outlet somewhere. It seems to like that so 12 years in I'm still getting the 30 mi that it got when it was brand new and President Obama was standing next to it on TV talking about he really like these cars. My brother owns a think tank in the DC area very rich dude He was doing a contract for GM when he got the vote probably paid near nothing for it or something who knows and it's in beautiful condition and then I liked it so much I bought another 13 I'm getting ready to put my daughter in the 11 and keep the 13 here for I don't know what driving when I feel like it I come from Prius I've been with Toyota 47 years most of my 47 years I wouldn't have been caught dead sitting in the Chevrolet. But I will tell you the volt is built better than Toyotas are being built after 2010 much better and I hate to have to admit that personally the volt is a top-notch build Just don't slam it into the ground pulling into parking lots and hit parking curbs with it I don't but I've seen people really tear the front end up badly but you can't really lose with the volt even when the battery starts messing up it still gets close to 40 miles to the gallon if you're not doing 85 mph with the generator running so still Prius mileage but GM air conditioning and speed you know what I mean more close enough to not split the hairs. And then even further as the battery even more deteriorates I guess something happens where the 12 volt won't charge so if you're flogging it back and forth to work in the daytime and don't have all the lights on and have LED in your headlights instead of the incandescence and so on you'll be all right when you get home you just charge the 12 volt You're not having to charge the big battery anymore cuz it's not doing much but you will have to charge the 12 volt and there's a guy on another list maybe this one I don't know that's running his vote like that right now. Batteries someone just had one installed recently and I thought it was like six grand It didn't seem bad actually compared to my Prius batteries to this this is a much larger battery and all of that so I didn't think that was too bad. Green tech or green bean has jumped in on this game and they're rebuilding these things but I'd be real careful with them I'd rather spend double the money and have the original battery and have another 12 years for the most part. There are some problems with some updates on the computers for the hybrid charging SV something system I don't know but. I will say a few people have had this update and then they get terrible get worse gas mileage and the generator is running a lot I haven't taken the updates in either of my cars and they run like they did when they're from the factory I've lost a couple miles on both of them in the 12 or 13-year-olds they are I don't consider that really to be too bad.

Cruze vs Volt?

Taxman

MP81

PanJet

PanJet

soutthpaw

DmaxMaverick

MP81

PanJet

Ma v e n

soutthpaw

boraz

MP81

soutthpaw

soutthpaw

MP81

Barry Allen

PanJet

Christoph

Blasirl

tombukt2

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