Six words: high pressure fuel pump.

If that lets go and VWoA decides they won't cover it, you're stuck submitting a $10,000 claim to your insurance company, as that's roughly how much a fuel system replacement costs when the HPFP gives up the ghost. I looked into a Jetta TDI, and hearing some of the horror stories about VWoA screwing people who did nothing wrong turned me off from the new TDI's quickly. That, and there's still a timing belt.

I also saw the thread about people who had zero problems with their 2010-current TDI's, and there were many happy owners chiming in.

FWIW, an acquaintance has a Passat TDI with the DSG they got in March 2012, and they love it. I think they get 38-44 mpg highway, and about 30 around town. They say it's quiet, very comfortable, and gets great fuel mileage considering it's a land yacht.

Ya pays ya mahney and ya takes ya chances with any cah, ya know...

 

Thanks, I didn't realize the fuel pump was that big of an issue. I also read that the DSG needs a $400 maintenance every 50k miles, which combined with the timing belt at 100k miles would put it around $2000 in regular scheduled maintenance (not including oil changes, brakes, etc) in the first 100k miles. I guess the economy really doesn't make sense for the TDI.

I am trying to find something larger and more comfortable than the Cruze but yet still gets 40+ on the highway. I want my cake and eat it too! The Passat TDI is the only car that comes close to those two criteria. But the maintenace cost and potential failures are scary when racking up the miles. I wonder if the new Passat has the fuel pump issues resolved?

 

The TDI will hold value better and the passat is a larger, more comfortable car.

The passat is also a lot more expensive, requires more maintenance (and more expensive maintenance) including the T-belt, and yes, VW is still poor in terms of reliability.

Personally i'd buy the Eco because of maintenance and reliability concerns. You will take a bigger hit on depreciation (percentage wise) compared to the TDI.

I think the Cruze is going to prove itself a surprisingly reliable car. Only thing is the A/C sucks, but that can be fixed with a few ounces of refrigerant (they're underfilled from GM). Beyond that i have no gripes about my car, and i usually have a lot of gripes about cars.

 

I got scared off when I visited the TDI Forum. And the price of diesel makes the economics seem sketchy.

 

I liked the TDI Golf, but several friends had Jettas/Bugs/Golfs in college. Out of those 7 people, only 1 still has their Jetta (a VR6). All the others died prematurely. Most were transmission issues.

 

I owned a passat for eight years. I loved it until I hit 80k miles and everything started breaking down on it. It was very expensive to repair and I now know how to fix bad wiring in cars because financially I really just had to do it myself. Personally it left a bad taste for me and I wouldn't own a VW again. I love my Eco and get great mpg.


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My mother had one also. Around 70K (3 years for her) everything started breaking and the car was spending more time in the shop than on the street. Various electrical issues, failing sensors and other issues that just shouldn't happen to a 3 year old car.

She dumped it around 80K miles.

She and i are both meticulous about maintenance also. The car was ahead of schedule on all maintenance and she drives like a typical middle aged woman, so no abuse or neglect.

Just awful VW quality.

 

I'm here because of the potential for the HPFP to implode. I owned a 2009 Jetta TDI and was very happy witn it, until I started reading at the TDIclub.com. It appears that the HPFP made by Bosch and redesigned about 3 times is still having trouble with US Diesel. VW claims that either mis-fueling with gas, contaminated diesel or even water in the system can cause the HPFP to implode.

Good, bad or indifferent, no single item should cause a $10,000 repair bill. Right now VW is covering them even after the warranty is over as it's cheaper than a recall.

But one day soon, they will say that either the car is to old or the mileage to high. So you'll be SOL and have nothing more than a car that can be parted out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm still a member at TDIclub.com and just with the members there, it looks like there's 1 HPFP imploding per week. Very sad.

 

I owned a 2003 BMW 325i and I will never own another German car... ever. Fun as **** to drive but ironically, all the sensors that were supposed to warn me of malfunctions, malfunctioned themselves.. $%&# terrible car. 9k on my 2012 ECO M6 and no issues at all... 42mpg avg on urban commutes is a nice bonus. Too early to tell about quality but it feels like a solid car. If you ever want to learn how to fix a car, get a BMW ;-).

I will add that my BMW got great gas mileage before I got rid of it, mainly because the o2 sensor (Bosch) was crapping out and the car was running lean. 82k miles Traded it in because I felt too guilty about selling it privately.

 

I owned a 2003 BMW 325i and I will never own another German car... ever. Fun as **** to drive but ironically, all the sensors that were supposed to warn me of malfunctions, malfunctioned themselves.. $%&# terrible car. 9k on my 2012 ECO M6 and no issues at all... 42mpg avg on urban commutes is a nice bonus.

BMW reliability is all over the map, depending on the model and year. Even one of my former coworkers who is a BMW fanboy admits their quality/reliability isn't very good. There are others fanboys who claim that's not true.

I am trying to find something larger and more comfortable than the Cruze but yet still gets 40+ on the highway. I want my cake and eat it too! The Passat TDI is the only car that comes close to those two criteria. But the maintenace cost and potential failures are scary when racking up the miles. I wonder if the new Passat has the fuel pump issues resolved?

Fuel Economy

Best vehicles for city & highway mpg
The most fuel-efficient cars
Best & worst fuel economy

FWIW, one of my friends who had (not sure if he still has) an older Passat was a big fan of German cars and "German engineering". While under warranty, he didn't really have any trouble but readily acknowledges VW reliability is not known to be very good and knows of numerous people w/trouble. Eventually, after the warranty expired, things started failing.

Look at a Prius V? That'll get 40+ mpg highway, and has more interior space than a Cruze. I'd say a Sonata, but they have issues with wandering all over on the highway.

Aside from a hybrid or the Passat TDI, nothing will really get 40 mpg highway that's larger than the Cruze and still decently affordable. For the Malibu, I'd wait until the regular Malibu came out without the mild hybrid stuff. .

Yep on the Camry Hybrid that someone else mentioned and Prius v wagon (see specs tab at Compare Side-by-Side for volume comparisons). Personally, if I didn't need the cargo carrying capacity and versatility of the v wagon, I'd go w/the HyCam. The HyCam gets amazing milage for it having 200 hp while only getting 1 mpg combined than the much slower 134 hp Prius v wagon (Consumer Reports - Fuel economy vs. performance).

'13 Malibu Eco is MUCH more fun to drive than the camry or sonata, and honestly it's better built.

I drove all 3 back to back on the track when i worked for GM. I'm not a GM loyalist and i was very skeptical of the car, and i can objectively say it's the best midsize Eco car and great value when you look at how much car you get for the $$.

I no longer work for GM and am not particularly loyal to the company. Just my honest opinion.

You drove the '12 Camry Hybrid and not a previous gen? (2011 and earlier were a previous gen.) The '12 is a huge improvement.

The '13 Malibu Eco is totally outmatched by '12 HyCam. See http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/17-o...off-topic-discussion/7758-gms-eassist-hybrid-bet-doesnt-pay-off.html#post109390. http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...ia-optima-ex-2012-toyota-camry-se-2012-volkswagen-passat-25-se-comparison-tests and http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/review-2013-chevrolet-malibu-eco/ didn't like it much.

Heck, even the '13 Altima (non-hybrid) which starts at ~$3800 less than the '13 Malibu Eco gets better EPA FE ratings in city/highway and combined (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32208&id=32611). The Altima also has more passenger volume.

 

'13 Malibu Eco is MUCH more fun to drive than the camry or sonata, and honestly it's better built.

I drove all 3 back to back on the track when i worked for GM. I'm not a GM loyalist and i was very skeptical of the car, and i can objectively say it's the best midsize Eco car and great value when you look at how much car you get for the $$.

I no longer work for GM and am not particularly loyal to the company. Just my honest opinion.

 

The Malibu Eco is absolutely a hybrid.

GM thinks the word "hybrid" is bad for business so they market it a little differently but the bottom line is it's a hybrid.

The Accord isn't that great. We have an '11 V6 coupe with all options in the family, and no one likes it. It has a lot of engine braking, which is fine, but as the car decelerates it downshifts early, and increases the rate of deceleration...so basically you take your foot off the gas and it falls on its face. Super annoying.

Also don't let the sporty looks fool you, it handles like a nose heavy land yacht. It has about 30K on it and has already been in for an ignition problem. The power is decent, the MPG is nothing special.

Overall, we can't wait to get rid of it.

My g/f has an 01 Civic with 175K miles. She drives it hard and it gets basically no maintenance, and never has issues. Ever.

I completely believe that honda is not the company it used to be.

 

Look at a Prius V? That'll get 40+ mpg highway, and has more interior space than a Cruze. I'd say a Sonata, but they have issues with wandering all over on the highway.

Aside from a hybrid or the Passat TDI, nothing will really get 40 mpg highway that's larger than the Cruze and still decently affordable. For the Malibu, I'd wait until the regular Malibu came out without the mild hybrid stuff. Although the Cruze is the same size on the inside as the Malibu...

 

Although the Cruze is the same size on the inside as the Malibu...

Sorry but there's no way that's accurate. It's close to the '12 malibu but the '13 is a good deal larger.

 

If you like driving at all, don't buy a Prius.

The Camry SE and Sonata are decently fun family cars with good punch from the 4 cylinder versions. I didn't much care for the Sonatas extremely vague steering.

Honda has really lost their edge. I almost bought an 05 Civic a couple years ago - a friend has had one since new and no problems with it, but the new ones from 06-12 are absolutely terrible to drive. Same with the Accord after 07.

I had a loaner 2012 Malibu 4 cylinder for 5 days while the Cruze was in the shop. Average (90 % highway) MPG? 25. I was definitely not impressed when I drive the Cruze exactly the same and it gets 38-40 easily.


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Thanks for all the good ideas and info. When I bought the Cruze my priorities were:
#1 highway MPG
#2 comfort/size/capability
#3 value($)

But I find myself with uncomfortable seats and, more often than I thought, a crowded car or inability to comfortably carry the stuff/passengers I want. The Cruze has become delegated to commuter duty only, where it racks up the miles on very little fuel, and hurts my back in the process. That has hurt the value equation since I end up not really using the Cruze for anything other than a long commute. So now my priorities have shifted to:
#1 comfort/size/capability
#2 highway MPG
#3 value($)

That is what led me to look hard at the Passat TDI since it meets those targets pretty well, but then there is the maintenance/reliability problem. I am a certified gear head, I love cars of all kinds, and I have had more vehicles than I care to count, but I've never owned a hybrid.

 

Just a few thoughts after reading all of this:

1 - VW reliability sucks and I will never own another one, I don't care how good the mileage is.
2 - If you are interested in driving fun at all avoid hybrids, putting wheels on your refrigerator will result in a better driving experience.
3 - The 2013 Malibu is a very good car (I happen to sell them) but the economics don't work out too well with the $1,800 premium for the ECO model. The regular models with the 2.5 are in production now but haven't been rated by the EPA yet.
4 - Sit down and figure out how much you will spend in fuel on a given model with the miles you drive in a year. The price hike for hybrids and diesels make any savings in fuel disappear very quickly unless you own cars for a very long time. I know you said hybrids are out but where I live right now diesel is 50 cents more per gallon, really killing saving anything at the pump.
5 - Since you are a professed gearhead, don't base everything solely on mpg (though I don't think you are). Buyer's remorse can set in very quickly and I have seen it several times with some of my customers.

So there are my opinionated thoughts..........

 

It's unfortunate the rear of the Malibu is so disgustingly ugly. Otherwise it's a decent car, though bigger than I'm looking for currently.

 

Never complained?! I'm 5'7" and the back seat of my Cruze is cramped.


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Agreed, I am just under 6foot & with my drivers seat in a comfortable position there is 4-8inches of rear footwell. Rear passengers feet have to ride partially under the seat! I can't imagine anyone riding behind someone 6ft 5inches or taller, unless you cut off their legs.

I think its great they notched the back of front seats for knee room but I don't like feeling wedged into the back seat of any car.

 

Our 2002 Camry or my parents 2007 Accord are not a problem for rear leg room AT ALL - but they're also huge cars. Smaller sedans definitely compromise on rear leg room for what seems like trunk space though. My 6'1" brother can't fit in the back of my old Volvo or the Cruze - his knees are in the seat and his head touching the ceiling =D

I remember the road trips in our Saab 900, where even as kids, with stuff in our footwells our knees were practically in our chest. Friends Jettas and Civics were the same way in college for long road trips. Interestingly enough, there's more legroom in a Golf than a Jetta for whatever reason.


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I'm 6'1" and with the driver's seat in my driving position I had no trouble sitting behind myself. I wouldn't recommend it for long trips, but it does what the car was intended to do. The Cruze isn't a full size family hauler, it's a small efficient runabout with enough space to get you where you need to go around town without being uncomfortable. In the back seat I had about an inch between my knees and the driver's seat and several inches above my head until the ceiling. No problems really.

 

Cruze Eco......enough said

 

44 mph in 6th gear is about 1400rpm. I can see how you might get that kind of mileage at that rpm.

*see edit below*

 

If your talking to me it was a steady 55mph and the rpm is somewhere around 1600ish I believe id have to look at the guage. The only reason it shows 44mph avg is because I had to slow down to 25 for 2 or 3 miles going thru a town and that dramatically reduces the speed average.

 

Ah you beat me to my edit. I found 44mph would be about 1400rpm in 6th. (edit: Eco 6MT 44mph would be more like 1300rpm, even better!)

Using Gear speed calculator

Here is the results: (edit: non-eco 6MT)

RPM	1st Gear	2nd Gear	3rd Gear	4th Gear	5th Gear	6th Gear
500	2	5	7	10	13	15
1000	5	9	14	20	25	31
1500	7	14	22	29	38	46
2000	10	18	29	39	51	61
2500	12	23	36	49	63	77
3000	15	27	43	59	76	92
3500	17	32	50	68	89	107
4000	20	37	58	78	101	123
4500	22	41	65	88	114	138
5000	25	46	72	98	127	153
5500	27	50	79	107	139	169
6000	29	55	86	117	152	184
6500	32	59	94	127	164	200

The data does seem a bit suspect with rpms reaching 2500 for 77mph in 6th. My Grand Prix auto doesn't need 2500 for even 80mph.

Ah I was using 6MT data from the non-eco. Will have update chart in a moment.

Here it is: (Eco 6MT)

RPM	1st Gear	2nd Gear	3rd Gear	4th Gear	5th Gear	6th Gear
500	2	5	8	11	14	17
1000	5	9	16	21	28	34
1500	7	14	24	32	41	50
2000	10	19	31	43	55	67
2500	12	24	39	53	69	84
3000	14	28	47	64	83	101
3500	17	33	55	75	97	117
4000	19	38	63	85	110	134
4500	22	43	71	96	124	151
5000	24	47	79	106	138	168
5500	26	52	86	117	152	184
6000	29	57	94	128	166	201
6500	31	62	102	138	180	218

And yes, 55mph looks to be about 1600rpm on the Eco 6MT.

 

The first chart is wrong somewhere along the line. 80 mph in 6th yields 3000-3100ish RPM in the non-ECO 1.4. Perhaps that's the automatic?

 

This is correct, that chart is off considerably.Corrected chart is below.