[plowman33]

Every article out there talking about this says that if you call them and tell them you don't want your service monitored, they will shut it off. No need to go cutting wires.

 

[plowman33]

That's my concern also - how do we know they wouldn't still collect information?

How do you know they won't sneak into your garage at night and re-attach the wires?

If you tell them to stop services, and they don't, they are liable for a lawsuit. That's how you know they'll do it.

 

[plowman33]

...and you guys called me paranoid (ha,ha)...actually, I'm just informed.

OnStar™ = BIG BROTHER

...read your Cruze Owners Manual (Customer Information, page 13-15), the car already also has a Event Data Recorder (EDR) built-in, but I'll bet your salesperson never mentioned it to you. And, YOU have no control over its contents. Insurance companys and Calfornia CARB and California Highway Patrol want un-monitored access to that information...especially, *if/when* you're in an accident...they want it so that you CANNOT refuse their accessing it in any way.

...I paid for the vehicle, and I did NOT have the "option" to refuse the inclusion of either the OnStar™ or the Event Data Recorder (EDR).

...their co$ts are foisted upon the buyers without consent or acceptance, and neither are EPA mandated--yet!

No, I'd still call you paranoid. All of that stuff sounds like conspiracy theories.

Yes, our car has OnStar. Yes they are collecting data about your vehicle. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is debatable, but it's not inherently suspicious. If you don't want a car that tracks your data, drive something from the 60's.

 

[plowman33]

Or us as consumers can demand that cars with this not be sold? The buyers should drive what new technology comes to us as users. Not the government. Everyone in the industry is watching which way this will go. The problem is large government oversight.

I like having OnStar on my car. I am not demanding that this technology not be put into the vehicles. Consumers demand things by who they choose to give their money to. So, like I said, if you don't like cars having OnStar, don't buy a car with OnStar.

And FYI, I have had no interaction with "the government" because of my vehicle purchase. If "Big Brother" has come knocking on your door because of data they've gathered from your OnStar, then I suppose you have every right in the world to be paranoid.

 

[plowman33]

...there are those who are cautious and there are those who are naïve.

And just like the movie "A Beautiful Mind", there are those who are actually involved in a government consipracy, and then there are people who think they are and have actually just gone crazy.

 

[plowman33]

Just as a side note, I do find it a little amusing people that are seemingly bothered by the fact that OnStar may gather information from their cars are using the internet.

:sigh:

 

[plowman33]

You need to do some research into OBD III and the reasons for it's push to be applied then you might have a different attitude towards the subject. Do you have any experience in the automotive world beyond the user level?

No, but I do have 11 years experience working for the government, including 4 years for NSA. So I can tell you firsthand that the government has much better things to do with their time than to analyze traffic data from random drivers. Our driving habits are not that important or interesting.

 

[plowman33]

And you are correct I will not purchase a car with Onstar. I made sure my 07 Pontiac didn't have it and of course Honda does not use a system similar to it.

Ok, sorry, I just assumed that a Moderator on a Chevy Cruze forum would actually own a Chevy Cruze.

 

[plowman33]

Our gripes have nothing to do with national security. I think there's been a misunderstanding? At least myself I'm not worried about government kicking my in doors. It's the EPA, NHTSA, and state DMV agencies. I think there's been a disconnect. lol

Yeah, I don't have a lot of contact with those agencies either... I don't see how OnStar data is going to change anything they do for the worse. I guess I just assumed you guys were worried about something more because of the Big Brother being mentioned, (I know it wasn't you), and the overall tone of impending doom.

It's not a requirement to own a Cruze to be a member. But you could always PM and admin and express your concern. That's your right as a member.

Oh, it's no big deal. I just thought it was odd...

 

[plowman33]

So... do you have anything that contradicts this? I'd certainly like to see it.

Oh snap. Subscribed.

 

[plowman33]

I think people are commenting outside the scope that me and 70AARCUDA are arguing? I dont remember one of us saying anything about selling information or even spying. I believe that argument has been misconstrued by others whom assumed that's what we meant earlier in the thread. And like 70 pointed out in the links its been in the works for years. The first test of a broadcasting OBD system that I know of was as early as 1994.

I think we need to get on the same page as to what we're debating here. Lol


Also sorry for any typos! im on my cell phone.

So the idea of OBDIII has been floating around for the last 17 years, and nothing has come of it. No technical specs, no adjustments to the law, no mandatory push dates or implementation timelines. I hope you haven't been fretting over this for 17 years straight now.

After looking over the proposed implementation ideas in those documents, I like what they're trying to do. They are using advancements in technology to reduce vehicle pollution.

 

[plowman33]

...first, they collect info without your consent.

...then, they use it without your consent.

...and, they sell it without your consent.

...didn't sign any "Consent to Release of Information" forms when we bought our GM vehicles.

You bought a car knowing it had OnStar. That's consent. And your consent to release information you signed with GM continues to it's third parties, like OnStar. Nobody snuck into your garage and hooked up OnStar without your knowledge.

 

[plowman33]

I know a guy with 30 years of experience working for the NSA. He cleans a building. :signs015:

And my experience is in the IT field, so I might know more about this than your janitor friend.

On topic, I believe the main issue here is consumer desire and freedom. Consumers should have the right to what data is collected, they should have the right to deactivate a product in their car once they purchase it. If you like it and see no issue with it you can have it, for those who do not like it, they should have the option not to have it.

You are confusing "rights" with "wants". Your rights as an American citizen do not directly translate over into the capitalist world. Chevy has the right to make money as they see fit, so long as they don't endanger people's lives or do anything illegal. The only real right you have as a consumer is to decide where to spend your money.

Its very sad that the mentality of some Americans has degraded to the point that they believe things are OK just because they like it or see no problem with it. Completely dismissing the concerns of those that don't want something. Individual freedom is just that, individual. Its not based on whether or not you like or "see" no issue with something being imposed on everyone.

If I like something and see no problem with it, then yes, it is OK by definition. My job as a consumer is not to make sure I'm only buying products that everyone likes. I'm buying products that I like. If you don't like that product, don't buy it. And nothing is ever being "imposed" on consumers, you always have the right to take your business elsewhere.

Everyone should be opposed to things like this for the simple fact that one day when you are one the other side of the argument the only thing that may help you win it is individual freedom still existing. Freedom is at least it is something that two red blooded Americans should be able to agree with.

As Benjamin Franklin said, those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security.

I completely agree with you that freedom is a good thing. It sounds like you are quite patriotic, but like I said earlier, you are confusing your American rights with your consumer rights. The two aren't interchangable. Companies are here to make money, bottom line. That's how capitalism works. That's why your car doesn't have every single part inside it available as optional, because cars can't be made inexpensively that way. And I'm not going to pay more for my car so that you can choose exactly how much of the car you want. You can do just about anything you want with the products you buy. So feel free to rip all the wires out that you think are letting people spy on you. Just dont ask the manufacterer to fix it when your headlights don't turn on, and dont tell the vast majority of us who enjoy our product that we shouldn't be just because you aren't.