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Air cooled is a different beast and yes oil is connected to water. It heats and cools along side with water.
Please explain the high temperature the differential oil in a RWD drive car can reach? So high in fact that in a race car the diff usually fails if the oil cooler stops working.

I found this on line: As you can see it would cause problems if the coolant reached these temperatures. As I own a diesel Cruze i know the coolant sits around 80C and my daughter's petrol 1.6T Cruze runs at over 100C.

For non-synthetic motor oil, the traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees F. For full synthetic motor oil, maximum can exceed 300 degrees. In all cases, less than 212 will cause water buildup in the crankcase.
 

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Air cooled is a different beast and yes oil is connected to water. It heats and cools along side with water.
Please explain the high temperature the differential oil in a RWD drive car can reach? So high in fact that in a race car the diff usually fails if the oil cooler stops working.

I found this on line: As you can see it would cause problems if the coolant reached these temperatures. As I own a diesel Cruze i know the coolant sits around 80C and my daughter's petrol 1.6T Cruze runs at over 100C.

For non-synthetic motor oil, the traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees F. For full synthetic motor oil, maximum can exceed 300 degrees. In all cases, less than 212 will cause water buildup in the crankcase.
Why are you comparing water cooled engines to non cooled rear ends?
 

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Why are you comparing water cooled engines to non cooled rear ends?
i understand you are concerned regarding NOx i have yearly emsission testing. MY car passed. if you did this and it did not pass then fine BUT YOU HAVE NOT DONE THIS MOD

as stated earlier ~~~ this mod is not for everyone. i am sharing MY temps and MY engine oil analysis and MY emissions regarding this mod that i have done to MY car.
please start another thread debating YOUR info you want to share.
 

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Why are you comparing water cooled engines to non cooled rear ends?
i understand you are concerned regarding NOx i have yearly emsission testing. MY car passed. if you did this and it did not pass then fine BUT YOU HAVE NOT DONE THIS MOD

as stated earlier ~~~ this mod is not for everyone. i am sharing MY temps and MY engine oil analysis and MY emissions regarding this mod that i have done to MY car.
please start another thread debating YOUR info you want to share.
And you did a darn good job too.

And I'm not off topic. From some of the posts. 😊
 

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as stated earlier ~~~ this mod is not for everyone. i am sharing MY temps and MY engine oil analysis and MY emissions regarding this mod that i have done to MY car.
please start another thread debating YOUR info you want to share.
I apologise as I guess it is my fault we got a little bit off topic. Back in the 80's when my kids were little I had a Toyota 8 seat mini van and the temperature of the engine used to gat higher than I was comfortable with in heavy traffic. It gets really hot in Australia so I asked around if anyone knew how I could get my engine to run cooler. I was told that a Volvo thermostat was set at 170 and the Toyota was at 195. By grinding down the Volvo one to make it fit the Toyota the cooling system problem was solved. This is the reason I got interested in this thread in the first place.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
:tempted:Guys, relax! :)
I did the change only because I was frustrated like many others to boil the coolant without knowing, I explained also that the gauge temp is useless! I would use a thermostat that would close around 90-95C but there were no options that I could find to replace with minimal changes. And I explained this, even GM change the thermostat later to lower temperature but different housing for the next generation (2017) that opens at... 82C yes! I changed, or help others, to do this change on more than a dozen cars and no issues. I detailed the steps for people who want to improve and avoid issues but don't start arguing now like the Cruze is an F1 car, where every small changes would have a big impact! I keep driving my Cruze/s with this change for that many months, I even forgot about it until I saw this topic opened again. We can debate a lot about it but, unless you have time to put gauges everywhere and go to deep details based on measurements, just look at the real life results: it works! Don't trust it? Don't do it!:cool:
 

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i understand you are concerned regarding NOx i have yearly emsission testing. MY car passed. if you did this and it did not pass then fine BUT YOU HAVE NOT DONE THIS MOD

as stated earlier ~~~ this mod is not for everyone. i am sharing MY temps and MY engine oil analysis and MY emissions regarding this mod that i have done to MY car.
please start another thread debating YOUR info you want to share.
I'm not concerned about NOx. I merely stated. Cooler thermostats produce less. Could be why the imports appear to be running 180's instead of 190's.

NOx isn't part of the emissions test. Only HC & CO. And when OBD2 came out. Now it's just a simple test for codes. In my state anyways.

And no. I haven't done it. The gen2's don't need the mod.
 

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I'm not concerned about NOx. I merely stated. Cooler thermostats produce less. Could be why the imports appear to be running 180's instead of 190's.

NOx isn't part of the emissions test. Only HC & CO. And when OBD2 came out. Now it's just a simple test for codes. In my state anyways.

And no. I haven't done it. The gen2's don't need the mod.
so, you do not have first hand knowledge of how the 1st Gen engine runs and behaves?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I'm not concerned about NOx. I merely stated. Cooler thermostats produce less. Could be why the imports appear to be running 180's instead of 190's.

NOx isn't part of the emissions test. Only HC & CO. And when OBD2 came out. Now it's just a simple test for codes. In my state anyways.

And no. I haven't done it. The gen2's don't need the mod.
so, you do not have first hand knowledge of how the 1st Gen engine runs and behaves?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well. My 12 ran and behaved just fine. For the brief time I owned it. Does yours run and behave differently?
 

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So no impact on fuel economy? Less pressure on hoses and that damned coolant tower I've had to replace twice? Less heat potentially leading to better performance overall? This kinda sound like a win win. I'll be doing this in a few months at the next service...
 

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One thing many consumers neglect is the cap on the coolant recovery tank. GM uses a 20 PSI cap on the 1.4 liter engine. I just recently replaced the outlet cooling manifold and the upper radiator hose because when the system gets up to normal temperatures coolant was seeping out of the hose at the manifold under pressure. My runnings temps were as high as 240 degrees on hot days running on highways. After I replaced these parts and a new thermostat as well as flushed out and renewed the coolant, temps were marginally lower. Since I've read that the coolant recovery tanks are prone to cracking over time I replaced the tank and cap with a Dorman. Dorman has metal sleeves in the hose fittings for reinforcement under temps and pressures. I pressure tested my old cap on my test bench and found that the original cap bled off at 24.5 psi. Since I live at sea level and in a hot climate I did some calculating on pressures and boiling points so I installed a Dorman 15 psi cap.
This cap actually bled off at 16.5 psi. That is perfect since I was deciding between a 15 or an 18 psi cap. Now my temperatures are running cooler. 215 to 228 degrees Fahrenheit. Right in the range of the rated thermostat of 221 degrees. My point here is replace your cap on your recovery tank. If it fails and starts to hang up the increase pressures might run your temperature up a bit, start pushing coolant out at fittings, but it will stress your plastic fittings, manifold and coolant recovery bottle. It's a cheap fix compared to getting stuck on the road and a tow bill to go with it assuming you didn't damage the engine.
 

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CRUISE-CRUZE, thanks for sharing
this cooler Dorman thermostat.
I have a 13 Sonic, and I have modified a couple of conventional thermostats to fit into the 1.4T housing.
I use a resistor to satisfy the PCMs
Looking for voltage/no voltage on the heater circuit.
This dorman is a much better option though.
It also offers potential to have a driver selectable dual temperature capability.
I wired up a switch to the thermostat heater circuit to manually control it while driving. Once the engine stabilizes at ~178°F, I can turn on the heater circuit, and on the highway, the engine temp will drop as low as 156°F at 85° ambient temp. Takes about 40-60 seconds to drop that much.
This could be good for things such as track outings, ect.
And contrary to popular belief, I believe that cooler operating temps could actually be beneficial to fuel economy.
I think that at lower engine temps, detonation is less common, so more timing advance can be used.

My normal operating temps now run between 173-178°F.
If this seems to be a bit lower than typical, it could be because when I was swapping out the "guts", I noticed that the original spring was about 1/8 inch shorter, and seemed to take a bit less pressure to compress, so I kept the original spring.
Now wether this spring is deliberately calibrated differently, just a manufacturing variance, or has softened a bit from use, I dont know.
 

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I forgot to mention that with the other thermostat I fabricated, i was running around 190°F, and my fuel economy is up from this time last year running the stock 217° thermostat, from about 37 to about 42 mpg.
A good portion of this increase is likely due to improved driving techniques, but I think part of it may be due to the cooler operating temps.
 

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If anybody is concerned that the Dorman thermostat is of lower quality, I am also fairly sure that both the stock GM/ACDelco and this Dorman thermostat are made by the same company/plant.
They both say
"made in Czech Republic" on the packaging, have similar numbers and scan codes etched onto the wax pellet body, and where the the GM part# sticker is on the side of the housing, you can see where this sticker has been peeled off of the Dorman, as evidenced by residual adhesive.
 

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What a great thread, my 2013 40K miles has always smelled of antifreeze after I drive it--especially in the summer, I garage it and the smell is horrific in the garage every time I use it, I believe the odor is the water outlet which distorts just enough to allow some venting, although there is no leakage with the dealers static pressure test and hardly noticeable coolant loss I believe the temperature is too hot for the plastic parts long term, I'm sure the GM engineers have figured out why all the coolant related failures happen but are stuck in a rock and a hard place in that they have to satisfy the emissions with the high temps but experience high failure rates of the cooling systems, hey its all good for car sales with the reduced life on the engine from the heat----I'll be doing this mod soon !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #60
CRUISE-CRUZE, thanks for sharing
this cooler Dorman thermostat.
I have a 13 Sonic, and I have modified a couple of conventional thermostats to fit into the 1.4T housing.
I use a resistor to satisfy the PCMs
Looking for voltage/no voltage on the heater circuit.
This dorman is a much better option though.
It also offers potential to have a driver selectable dual temperature capability.
I wired up a switch to the thermostat heater circuit to manually control it while driving. Once the engine stabilizes at ~178°F, I can turn on the heater circuit, and on the highway, the engine temp will drop as low as 156°F at 85° ambient temp. Takes about 40-60 seconds to drop that much.
This could be good for things such as track outings, ect.
And contrary to popular belief, I believe that cooler operating temps could actually be beneficial to fuel economy.
I think that at lower engine temps, detonation is less common, so more timing advance can be used.

My normal operating temps now run between 173-178°F.
If this seems to be a bit lower than typical, it could be because when I was swapping out the "guts", I noticed that the original spring was about 1/8 inch shorter, and seemed to take a bit less pressure to compress, so I kept the original spring.
Now wether this spring is deliberately calibrated differently, just a manufacturing variance, or has softened a bit from use, I dont know.
Interesting, I like the idea! The only issue is that the temperature gauge is useless (unless they put in Sonic something better?) so you need to watch the temperature to a secondary gauge (OBD) then to act accordingly..
I'm replacing one of my oldest Cruze with a 2014. Same trim: Eco & MT. A lot of downgrades I can see so I'm swapping parts from the old one now. Same issue with the thermostat so I have to swap it again. And it has the PCV issue and the trunk button issue and no light into the glove compartment, etc, etc... I have a lot of re-work to do until fall. I said a few times that owning a Cruze (more) makes me a better mechanic month by month!! ;)
 
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