I saw that. It will be interesting to see how happy the owners are with their VWTD after the update. I suspect it will take some of the fun out of the car. (Why else would VW have done it?)

 

The smart TDI owners will just ignore the recall.

 

Was just going to post this myself. This is an interesting development for VW.

I believe Caterpilliar tried something similar about 15-20 years ago where they "derated" their engines during testing, but changed the parameters for normal use since the derated tuning met emissions, but was junk for actual use.

 

Does not surprise me. its easier to cheat then comply with emmisions. time for a big fine and a big hit to there oil burner sales

 

The smart TDI owners will just ignore the recall.

defiantly lol. funny that even with them turning the systems off on road they still have emissions issues :go:

 

I wonder if GM will reconsider skipping the CTD for 2016? Depending on what happens, they might have just been handed a big opening in the passenger diesel market.

 

like California.

that right there is the problem. comifornia will care. rest of the usa i dont think will bother

 

that right there is the problem. comifornia will care. rest of the usa i don't think will bother

California definitely cares. Cousin of mine lives in LA area said he failed the emissions test with his 2000 Acura and the Acura/Honda mechanic said since the car had 114000 miles he needed a new timing belt. Scheduled replacement at 100,000. He said the car ran fine. It was my assumption that it may have stretched and skipped a tooth causing emission changes thus causing the failure. I am the family "mechanic" or at least knows the most about cars LOL.

 

This article has more detail.

It appears this may indirectly affect GM. "CARB and EPA have begun procuring in-use diesel vehicles produced by other manufacturers to screen the vehicles for possible defeat devices."

Let's hope GM has been playing by the rules.

 

This article has more detail.

"EPA said VW must fix the vehicles, but didn’t formally order a recall."

Hmmm.

 

The big downsize here for VW owners may be a decent drop in MPG compared to what they were getting.

 

That would be the next fine against VW.

 

The Nitrogen oxides emissions are controlled by the diesel exhaust fluid treatment of the exhaust. I wonder if the software reduced or cut off the addition of the DEF when not in EPA test mode. Aside from reducing DEF consumption would the TDI also perform better?

 

VW TDIs did not have DEF until recently (2015 for Jetta and Golf and maybe 2014 for Passat??). Prior to that (most of the cars in question) they relied on EGR to reduce NOx. A fix could certainly cause performance issues.

 

This could get extremely messy for VW. There is already talk of up to $18 billion (with a B) in fines - $37,500 for every car produced this way. Also, if the fix causes any significant change in mileage or performance, I smell a massive lawsuit from TDI owners. Also, it appears this may affect even their new TDI engine as it includes 2015 models.

 

Vw didn't use Def until around 2013. I could be wrong though.

 

Be nice to see their mpg drop, tdi owners are on a high horse and need to be knocked down a little. They had to have cheated for the mpg gain as that is the number 1 reason people buy diesel.

 

My clean diesel is clean. It's only VW with a problem. Yeah that's it

 

More information on this issue and VW is not the only cheater on the emissions testing stage. And we all remember Hunday's EPA fake numbers.

EPA: Volkswagen used ‘defeat device’ to illegally skirt air-pollution controls - The Washington Post

 

I guess VW told the EPA to farfegnugen off!

 

good one!

 

Those sneaky Germans...

I wonder if their Audi TDIs were affected too.

 

I wonder if their Audi TDIs were affected too.

"Affected diesel models include the 2009-15 Volkswagen Jetta, 2009-15 Beetle, 2009-15 Golf, 2014-15 Passat and 2009-15 Audi A3."

 

So far until they check other models.

 

Das auspuff ich nicht tonen.

 

I'm rather baffled how in the world it went this long (at least six to seven years since 2009 model years were involved) without being noticed.

How many people are involved with the creation of a car? There had to be countless people that knew about it. After all, there had to be engineers who knew the engine couldn't meet emissions spec without cheating, software developers who created the cheating software, and of course the didn't do it on their own, so I'm sure there were multiple levels of management involved. It's not like one or two people decided, "Hey, let's just modify the entire operating specs of the car," and no one else in the company knew about it. You would think the whistle would have been blown long ago. For that many people to keep their mouths shut for so long is beyond me.

 

I'm rather baffled how in the world it went this long (at least six to seven years since 2009 model years were involved) without being noticed.

Since the VW and cruze both use the same size engine at 2.0L maybe someone at the EPA wondered why GM needed DEF to pass emissions and VW didn't. With the same size engine and fuel type you should expect similar efficiency and tail pipe emissions, no way around those physics.

 

If it doesn't meet the standards for it's model year, VW should have to buy it back. Then they should be crushed.

 

And the buyback should be at MSRP or what the owner paid for it, whichever is higher. Don't forget sales taxes, titling, and registration either. For second or subsequent owners the money should go to the original owner and then the subsequent owner should get bluebook (prior to this being announced). This type of shenanigans should seriously hurt a car company.

 

LOOOONNNNNGGG Thread over at TDI Club about it with a lot of ticked off owners. Apparently the 2016 TDI's have been delayed and speculated to be because of this. What a year for GM to be out of the small diesel market. Assuming the CTD is legitimate, GM has proven a small, powerful, and efficient diesel can meet US emissions. They probably could have sold a boatload this year if the TDI gets put on hold for a while.

Side note: A number of them seem to think this is why they're routinely getting higher than EPA rated mileage, but I think we've established the same with the CTD. It has more to do with the EPA's method for testing diesels tends to underrate the mileage vs real life.

 

One thing for sure is that VW won't take this lying down. They'll be sending plane loads full of lawyers to fight (explain) this.

They're not going to roll over and take this like a man.

 

A comment I just read at the New York Times:

[h=3]Bill Krause[/h] Great Neck, NY 18 hours agoAs a former Volkswagen owner, I have to say that I am deeply shocked that they were able to make a piece of electronics that works.

 

Hahaha. Every tdi owner I talk to is amazed that Chevrolet makes a diesel and they're excited about I because they say after about 3 years the vw just falls apart.

 

So VW started using the defeat system to avoid using DEF to control NOx emissions. This gave VW a huge advantage on the sales floor compared to the CTD. I always wondered how the TDI could be so clean without DEF. The logical fix would be for the regulators to require VW to retrofit the affected TDI models with a DEF system, a huge cost for VW, probably not even economically feasible. VWs' recent switch to DEF indicates they knew this is coming. This could actually increase the value of non DEF TDIs if they can't be retrofitted.